Use of Church-Related Names, Logos, and Other Material

[Anonymous UserParticipant]

 

I'm just curious . . . I love all the great church-related things on your website, but was wondering . . . do sites like yours and Sugardoodle get specific permission from the church to use the names and logos such as the Relief Society logos or Primary logos and names, etcetera? I see all kinds of non-endorsed church-related stuff all over the internet, but yet when we tried to set up a RS Facebook Page we were told we can't use the names or logos. There was some disagreements about interpreting the policies so I called the Intellectual Properties and Copyright Dept of the Church. 

 

I was told that we CANNOT use the name of the Church, it's organizations, the names of wards, branches, stakes, etc, or any logos of the Church, on websites or anywhere on the internet in the title or on the main pages especially. The person I  talked with said that in the case of a Facebook page, it was okay to mention the above (with the exception of using the logos) in the About description. We can't post or share anything that is copyrighted unless we get specific permission from the original owner of a photo, painting, or other church material unless they specifically say we can do so.

 

So I was wondering then . . . does this mean that almost all of the members on the internet are going against the Churches policies? Did you get permission to share all of these things? Intentions are always good, but I guess good or not, many of us are still breaking the law according to the Church. I noticed in your FAQ, that people cannot use the stuff on your site without your permission, but things like RS and primary logos aren't yours to begin with and you really have no say about the use of those, so I was wondering if you got specific permission from the Church to use all of these logos, photos, paintings, clipart, etc (other than your own)? Are we all criminals then?

 

I would really appreciate your response regarding this matter as I thought we were all doing a good thing.

 

http://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/content/swf/PD50037186_000_Oct_11%20Copyright%20Request%20-%20Manuscript.pdf

http://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies

(Section 21.1.22)

 

http://www.lds.org/pages/internet-usage-helps

 

[Jenny SmithParticipant]

:)  Yes, I have a copyright release on file with the Church's copyright office, Intellectual Reserve.  Read my FAQ again — I state specifically that I don't own any Church logos and their copyright terms apply.  Regarding RS and YW logos, those are not the logo that is being referred to in the Handbook.  That refers to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints logo found at the top left of the Church's website.  You'll note that is found no where on this site, even though yes, I do have the capability to reproduce it in a scalable format.  Further, you'll also notice that I include "Used by permission" on images that I use that come from the Church, because they are in fact, used by permission, and IR asked me to do so.

The YW and RS logos were specifically created for use by members.  Primary, Sunday School, and Seminary have no logo or symbol, with the exception of the CTR logo. Intellectual Reserve has never, to my knowledge, approached anyone to cease use of those images — not even for commercial use, as in the case of CTR rings and YW stickers.

You didn't ask about GAK images specifically, but again, yes, I do have a document on file at Intellectual Reserve releasing me to use those images.  I approached them to ask permission before releasing the images and logos.  It was a pain in the butt to get the release because their office will not return telephone calls.  You may also refer to the release of those images found on the Church's website, which states that noncommercial use is allowed for those and nearly all images on the site or found in print, unless specifically prohibited. 

Regarding the name of the Church, you were misinformed.  Of course we can use the name of the Church online.  If not, no one could refer to the church by it's full name in print anywhere.  This site is not an official Church site and does not claim to be so.  It is that activity the Church is trying to prevent.  The information you really need is found here: https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies#21.1.22

Regarding your Facebook page, all that is required to start a church Facebook page is to state that your page does not represent the official policies of the Church.  I don't know why people can't figure it out….

Did you ask IR about this site and others?  I doubt they condemned anything they see here or on Sugardoodle, which is a great site.  Melanie, like me, also works very hard to make sure no copyrights are violated. 

I have to say, this is a clown question, bro — intended to stir up controversy, not help the work.

 

[Anonymous UserParticipant]

Actually, this is a legitimate question, and I'm certainly NOT trying to stir up trouble! :-) I moved here to the south and let me tell you . . . after living all over the country, I have NEVER seen the church as it is here, at least not where I'm at! Things are so backwards and closed-minded here that everytime something is suggested that is being done in wards and branches all over the rest of the country, it gets shot down.

I don't see what the big deal is, but they are such sticklers down here . . . they want us to tell everyone about the church, but yet we can't use the name of the church or it's organization? Go figure.The way everyone is interpreting the church policies here, they all say different things, so I'm just trying to sort it all out.

Regarding your statement: "Of course we can use the name of the Church online.  If not, no one could refer to the church by it's full name in print anywhere." That's EXACTLY what I told the leaders here . . . plus there would be no books written by church members or cd's, etcetera. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I figured your site, as well as many others have received permission to use things . . . I do so with my own websites (yes, I make my own self-hosted WP sites). They wanted this FB page for our Relief Society, but with all the "can't do's" I'm about ready to let them handle it themselves and I'll just do my OWN personal FB page for RS.

I'm just a bit frustrated with things down here . . . I've never had to deal with such closed minds before. Time is running out, the work is hastening and moving forward at an ever-increasing rate, and to piddle over such things as this is, in my opinion a big waste of time. That is why I FINALLY called the Intellectual Property Dept myself. They're the ones who told me that we couldn't use the names or logos (including RS, ward & branch names, etc) in the titles or headers of our page or sites, but it was okay to use in the description or body text. Looks to me like we ALL need to pray about it because we are ALL definitly not ONE or UNITED in this matter.

Thank you for your explanation and information. I certainly see things closer to your POV than to anyone else's I've talked with. I apologize if I offended you, I certainly didn't mean to. It may have just been my frustrations showing through. I LOVE your site, as well as others . . . and I'm currently working on a really big membership site myself, possibly the most important one I've ever done. 

Best wishes to you, and continued success with your site! The work will continue to move on despite the little (or big) setbacks! :-)

[Jenny SmithParticipant]

Thank you for the response. You should  more tactful, however, as the reason I created this website was so that my home unit, a micro branch in the Deep South, could have access to the materials I collected elsewhere.  A Southerner myself, your words and name-calling could be very offensive to those around you. From the perspective of the members there, you are trying to "fix" something that, to them, ain't broke. Work with the material you have, and love these Southern members. You will find they have a firm faith peppered with a distrust of programs that seem to come from Utah, after having had years of inadequate, impossible handbook ideas forced on them by well-meaning by-the-book types over many years. My unit had the same problem: previous versions of the handbook tried to bend members to the Utah-style close geographical unit, instead of giving members the freedom to fit church programs to the needs of the members. The new handbook is a big step up in that regard.

Give your new friends time to see that you want to support what they're doing, not fix it. Things will work out.

Remember It is not closed-minded to have an opinion that is different than yours or to proceed slowly. We Southerners drive, talk, and move more slowly than others, but once planted we are unshakable. Embrace that, and be patient with us.

You will recall that there was a (brief) attempt by leaders to require members to use the full name of the church instead of the word Mormon some years ago. It could be that directive that is being confused here. They was another brief attempt to shut down local unit websites that many misunderstood to mean that members could not have personal websites that spoke of church callings. It was confusing advice when it was given, and Salt Lake is still refining the message. It will take time to sort out the bad information. Direct people to the handbook section I showed you, and let them figure it out. If they don't, move on. 

[Anonymous UserParticipant]

I'm sure you are right. It's a lesson in patience and humility for me, but the same words are coming even from the Southern members who have been here most of their life, not just me. The words, close-mindedness came from their mouths as they're the ones who were shot down before I even came here. Many want to see changes, but it's always a fight. It's the well-meaning by-the-book types that they've been up against. Gets very discouraging for everyone, not just me. I guess it's something we all need to learn from, and in the end, I'm sure it will all sort itself out. In the meantime, I'll continue doing what I've been doing on my own personal sites.

I do love the people here, some of the most loving and friendliest I've ever seen, but a closed mind, no matter where in the country it is . . . is a sign of a prideful heart. When the general authorities say to do something, we either obey or we don't. It's our choice, but if choose to be hesitant, we are the ones losing the blessings that come with obeying the counsel of the Lord's chosen leaders. The work is hastening for a reason. They lowered the missionary age for a reason. Our youth are the ones who will be lifted up at the last day, the ones who will see the face of the Savior. http://youtu.be/IqaesQ2EE8w

In the words of Dallin H. Oaks concerning the world events of today: "even non-members are "waking up" before our own members are." Things are moving forward quickly. Soon there won't be time to take things slowly, but for now, patience is a virtue that I still need learn and I guess this is my test.

Thank you again for your insight. I do appreciate it and have learned a thing or two as well. God bless you, and all of us.

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